The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

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West Virginia Mule
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The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#1 Post by West Virginia Mule » 25 Jun 2009 23:59

The Heritage Foundation wrote:Is all of this economic pain justified by gains against global warming? Waxman-Markey raises energy prices by 55-90 percent. These higher energy prices push unemployment up by 1,145,000 jobs on average, with peaks over 2,479,000. In aggregate, GDP drops by over $9.4 trillion. The next generation will inherit a federal debt pumped up by $28,728 per person. All of these costs accrue in the first 25 years of a 90-year program that, as calculated by climatologists, will lower temperatures by only hundredths of a degree in 2050 and no more than two-tenths of a degree at the end of the century.

The impact of Waxman-Markey on the next generation of families is $1,241 per year in higher energy costs, over $100,000 of additional federal debt (above and beyond the unconscionable increases already scheduled), a weaker economy, and more unemployment. Furthermore, the recently proposed modifications to Waxman-Markey only make these problems worse: By devising a less-efficient pattern of government expenditures, this new draft would more than offset the gains from the proposed slight easing of targeted emissions reductions for 2020.

And all for a change in world temperature that might not be noticeable.
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#2 Post by Joost » 26 Jun 2009 00:02

Where are the calculations that show this? A GDP drop by $9.4 trillion seems a bit unlikely for a country with a GDP of $14.2 trillion...

Also, peeps seem to forget that we're actually running out of oil in a few decades. Which would effectively render all the long term consequences of a plan like this void. Or did you really believe we're still here with an endless supply of the black gold?

PS: I'm really getting tired of this by now though. Can't say I enjoy the fact how you have used so far two forums as your personal soapbox, much to the annoyance of quite a few regulars of those forums. If I were truly interested in what the Heritage Foundation has to say, I'd look at their website, not at the forum of a German metal band. Get a blog. Or something.
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#3 Post by West Virginia Mule » 26 Jun 2009 00:32

If you find any topic or post of mine inappropriate for the intended content of this forum or personally offensive, you have the power to delete said topics or posts and/or ban me from the forum. It is not my intent to dilute the integrity of the Blind Guardian forum with inappropriate or offensive material.
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#4 Post by Joost » 26 Jun 2009 00:35

And it's not my intent to just randomly ban people or delete their messages. I do value freedom of speech more than you might expect. There's a step between having the power to do something, and actually doing that thing, you know?

I just want to point out that, here and on NPS, well, not everyone's equally happy with the way you post these threads, and especially your lack of willingness to discuss or to decently address the points against you.

My "please stop this" should be taken purely as a personal opinion. (If I were just a powerless regular forum user, I would probably have worded this in a somewhat harsher way.) It is not a threat I make as a forum mod/admin, but I would like you to consider the idea that you might be doing more harm than good with your neocon-propaganda-posting-spree. I really want you to quit this, for once and for all. But I won't ban you for making these kinds of posts. They do not go against any forum rule.
You charge each other for the time and breath it takes to say 'good morning',
But the truth is slowly dawning -- things are getting out of hand,
We all pursue our shattered dreams along the roads to our own ruin --
Watch our empires sink and wash away like castles made of sand.
And so cast off the lies that are your lives and find the truth within.
-- Martin Walkyier

Also, Balrogs have wings.

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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#5 Post by West Virginia Mule » 26 Jun 2009 00:51

You're probably right. This is not the venue for it. You really do have a voice of reason sometimes, Joost.

Harm and good. You know, Martin has done me a lot of harm and good. I express the newly developed, deep-seated fears that are shaking the foundation of my life, and I don't express them with complete strangers. At least not at first, not until here. Martin takes personal offense and launches a personal offensive back against me, more than once. Now, I know you won't see it that way because of who you are, but that's exactly how I saw it, how I felt it. I didn't go after him at all, not initially, only as a response. I would never do that with him. I only reacted to what he said. My comments were about my country and my president and my life. You'd think I was talking about him and his life. And yeah, I did end up mentioning Europe a little out of spite, but it's nothing I really meant. It was hurt and betrayal I felt.

You can't debate when you're consumed with emotion. All you can do is throw punches. Likewise, you can't really debate when you're still learning.

So yeah, I'll leave this stuff alone for you, at least when it's presented like this. No biggie.

Besides, if cap-and-trade passes the House tomorrow I'll kill myself.
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#6 Post by Joost » 26 Jun 2009 01:11

To be honest I was quite shocked when I read some of the messages from Martin that were posted on NPS, including his last one. I just didn't get it. Made me feel a lot more was going on beneath the surface, and that I was just witnessing the tip of the iceberg.

Other than that, I don't really know. I'm perfectly fine with political discussion on the forum, and of course you can't have discussion without there being two sides to the discussion. But right now I guess, I am a) a bit oversensitive due to what happened on NPS, and b) I do not really have the idea that many people here are actually waiting for a copy-paste from the Heritage Foundation, that cites a lot of numbers that the other side would certainly not agree to as being factual, without any explanation or whatever. It's like disinformation to me. And I guess I'm a bit allergic to that.

And, risking to sound a bit like Zen Master Joost or something, let me add this: I think the trick to life (and many aspects thereof) is not to let fear rule your life too much, and neither to attach too much to your current situation as it is right now. In all realism, the risk of you actually becoming homeless is probably quite small. There's just one thing we know for certain about the future, and that is that things are not going to stay the same. They may change for the better, they may change for the worse, but they will change. And sometimes changes will be both for the better and for the worse, at the same time. If Obama turns the US into a social-democratic welfare state (which I think is quite unlikely), that may have negative consequences for you, but also positive ones. If things like this were totally one sided, people all around the world probably would have sided with a single political ideology (the Best One™) long ago, wouldn't they?
You charge each other for the time and breath it takes to say 'good morning',
But the truth is slowly dawning -- things are getting out of hand,
We all pursue our shattered dreams along the roads to our own ruin --
Watch our empires sink and wash away like castles made of sand.
And so cast off the lies that are your lives and find the truth within.
-- Martin Walkyier

Also, Balrogs have wings.

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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#7 Post by Skyclad » 26 Jun 2009 02:26

I bet you could so beat up Martin, Jackson. We may not agree politically, but I'd help you beat that smarmy German up if you want me to. (PS... Marti will write some poetry about this post soon... then come on here and say we're all wrong). Wheee!
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#8 Post by West Virginia Mule » 26 Jun 2009 03:03

Joost wrote:To be honest I was quite shocked when I read some of the messages from Martin that were posted on NPS, including his last one. I just didn't get it. Made me feel a lot more was going on beneath the surface, and that I was just witnessing the tip of the iceberg.
No, it was all in the open there on page. We haven't exchanged PMs or email or for years.
of course you can't have discussion without there being two sides to the discussion.
I understand. I think what I wanted to do was some rage writing, slam it down and be done with it. Even though I'm older than dirt, political involvement is new to me and my views and methods of expressing them will likely take years to mature. But yeah, a forum is about the exchange of philosophies or whaetver, not about one shot rage writing I guess.

To that end, I'd like to rewrite the long Obama topic at some point, breaking it up into small, related fragments that can be discussed. Or I will at least try to discuss what I can. Because what I wrote there is not only too long for a forum like this, but very much lacking in continuity, mechanics and focus as well. Uhm...okay idea or not, do you think?
I am a) a bit oversensitive due to what happened on NPS,
Yeah, I felt that. You know, I still have some of that problem with not always thinking of internet people as real people. I would never in a million years speak to a real perosn the way I typed at Martin over there, the way I've typed at people on this forum in the past, or even the way I worded much of The Manifesto. For a week or so I put off reading what he wrote in reponse (the whited out post) because I knew I would not be able to control my own response if he pushed certain buttons. The last thing I wanted was for anything like that to happen again, and yet I walked right into it. To tell Martin I'm sorry, that it was a general rage response and I wasn't even thinking of him personally when I wrote most of it, would probably be worth little. I mean, how many times have said I'm sorry? I haven't learned to be careful with my words on the internet, or when writing in general.
I do not really have the idea that many people here are actually waiting for a copy-paste from the Heritage Foundation, that cites a lot of numbers that the other side would certainly not agree to as being factual, without any explanation or whatever. It's like disinformation to me. And I guess I'm a bit allergic to that.
I don't see it that way, but I understand what you mean. Truth is, I thought the topic would have more weight coming from them than from my own words. Using their words and numbers, I'd hoped to see if anyone from another country (including Michigan) actually cared about what cap-and-trade was going to do to the millions of people it was going have an extremely adverse effect upon, especially considering its dubious quality as an environmental program.

Suppose I could rewrite this topic at the top in my own words and try to discuss, huh? Rage writing, apparently my new catchphrase of the day, is so draining, just takes so much out of you.
And, risking to sound a bit like Zen Master Joost or something, let me add this: I think the trick to life (and many aspects thereof) is not to let fear rule your life too much, and neither to attach too much to your current situation as it is right now. In all realism, the risk of you actually becoming homeless is probably quite small.
Was I overreacting? Yes, probably. I've been known to do that. I am as scared right now as I've ever been in my life. I've never had so much to lose if things fall the wrong way. I’ve got a $1000 a month mortgage on a very small, humble home that will not be paid off for another ten years. The jobs available to me where I live if the refinery closes will not cover that and everything else you need to pay for to survive. Not even close.

We're not a company that has failed because of self-inflicted wounds and incompetence in a capitalist free market system like GM or Chrysler. The oil industry and my company in particular—Ergon Refining, or Ergon West Virginia, Inc. to be specific—are fine, even if sales aren’t what they were a year ago. We're going to fail because—if Cap and Trade passes in its current form—Obama is going to hammer us into submission for a token gesture at improving global warming and a lot of tax money in his pocket. It’s fear and fury and worse I’m feeling, something close to hatred. Martin pushed on those spots and I screamed. It really had little to do with him. It’s okay if my relationship with him has ended, but it sure didn’t have to be that way, and I sure don’t feel good about it.
There's just one thing we know for certain about the future, and that is that things are not going to stay the same. They may change for the better, they may change for the worse, but they will change. And sometimes changes will be both for the better and for the worse, at the same time. If Obama turns the US into a social-democratic welfare state (which I think is quite unlikely), that may have negative consequences for you, but also positive ones. If things like this were totally one sided, people all around the world probably would have sided with a single political ideology (the Best One™) long ago, wouldn't they?
I actually believe all of that. Or most of it. Fifteen-twenty years ago I couldn't stand people like I am now, the conservative flag-wavers towing the old line. How I got from there to here I don't know for sure, but I'm here nonetheless. It's what my life has evolved into, and I believe in it to the core, until tears well up and goosebumps pop up on the arms. Seriously, I welled and bumped up watching a 60 second Newt Gingrich clip today when he talked about rallying to defeat the Waxman-Markey bill. And yeah, I'm very scared of change. Scared of a lot of things, which isn't the most fun or productive way to got through life, huh? And I realize that if it's not Waxman-Markey now, it'll be something else later. Sure, we have to get off oil eventually, but this bill is not the way to do it.

And personally, as much as I tend to dislike my job at times, I hope we stay on oil hot and heavy for another 25 years or so until I retire. :wink:
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#9 Post by Sleeping Dragon » 26 Jun 2009 08:07

actually, i'm glad you made these posts, mule. not because i agree with them, quite the contrary, but because it gives me a bit of a clearer picture about what's going to happen in this world over the next 50-100 years. i'll try to explain this, but it's 8:30am so bear with me.

change in the western way of life is inevitable. we've been relying on this magnificently cost-efficient fuel called oil for a long time and are having a difficult time getting used to the fact that we won't have it for much longer. this goes almost as much for europe as it does for america. we all use energy the way we were brought up to use it, a lot.

israel is quite a nasty bitch for overusing air-conditioning in tremendously new and inventive ways of being ineffective and wasteful. but try explaining to someone why they shouldn't use air conditioning when they can open up a window because it just makes sense and you get stared at as if you said the earth was a sphere.

as for obama being the new super-devil, try not to think of it that way. it's just as stupid as people bashing bush for the past 9 years... governments are reactionists, the organisation is too complex and docile to be able to initiate anything as big as global warming or energy and economical crises on their own. the way in which they react, that can be weighed, but then again, it's only in retrospect that we gain a proper view of the causes, reactions and results.

i don't envy you mule, america as a nation and as individuals have a lot of coming-to-terms-with-things to do. and i understand your fear.
as a nation, america is rapidly losing it's planet-cred as the kickassest biggest nation in the world, the dollar is abandoned as a foreign trade currency, industry is outsourced, as it turns out, asia is bigger and more capitalist than the US ever was, shit is happening all around.
as individuals, i don't need to tell you.

on the bright side, though, the world probably won't come to an end soon. oil will be around for a few more years while we subtly make the inevitable transition to a different way of life. a better way of life? i'll ask my future self next time i see him in about 25-50 years.
West Virginia Mule wrote:My comments were about my country and my president and my life. You'd think I was talking about him and his life.
here's some food for thought:
the world is affceted by what america does
what america does is affected by what americans think and believe.
what americans think and believe is bloody well important to us in foreign lands.


some crazy scotsman one said: think global, act local.
i'll take care of energy wasters, war mongers and racists over here, you take care of small minded, paranoia spreading, self indulgent pricks over there. the world will be a bit harder to deal with tomorrow morning but at least the world would suffer less.
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#10 Post by Wicked Child » 26 Jun 2009 13:53

Who the hell is Martin? Sometimes you people talk like you were from the Mafia or something.. :P That makes me feel I'm not part of the famiglia :(
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#11 Post by No‘am » 26 Jun 2009 13:56

and what's NPS?
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#12 Post by Sleeping Dragon » 26 Jun 2009 13:59

night's plutonian shores or something, it's a forum some guy from this board made, right about the time we arrived, a few years ago, after he's been bashed for being overly poetic about stuff.
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#13 Post by ThePKH » 26 Jun 2009 15:11

The forum rumor goes there be gods at NPS. Basicly it was a reaction to how BG forum was getting increasingly boring, shallow and spammy for the forum elite. I found NPS to be more boring.
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#14 Post by Skyclad » 26 Jun 2009 17:34

Wicked Child wrote:Who the hell is Martin?
Nobody.
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#15 Post by Wicked Child » 26 Jun 2009 18:53

Skyclad wrote:
Wicked Child wrote:Who the hell is Martin?
Nobody.
You seem to like him very much. But now, I remember Joos referring as martin to someoned who attends by name of Kankra. Am I right?
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#16 Post by Belgarion » 26 Jun 2009 19:06

Yes. Martin=Kankra
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#17 Post by Joost » 26 Jun 2009 19:24

And Kankra is the name of Shelob in the German translation of The Lord of the Rings. :P
You charge each other for the time and breath it takes to say 'good morning',
But the truth is slowly dawning -- things are getting out of hand,
We all pursue our shattered dreams along the roads to our own ruin --
Watch our empires sink and wash away like castles made of sand.
And so cast off the lies that are your lives and find the truth within.
-- Martin Walkyier

Also, Balrogs have wings.

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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#18 Post by Skyclad » 26 Jun 2009 21:31

Wicked Child wrote:
You seem to like him very much.
Oh, he's a real pip!
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#19 Post by Belgarion » 26 Jun 2009 21:34

Joost wrote:And Kankra is the name of Shelob in the German translation of The Lord of the Rings. :P
I never understood why they felt the need to translate Shelob to Kankra in the first place? :lol:
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#20 Post by Joost » 26 Jun 2009 21:42

Don't ask me, I'm not German, and the only language I ever read tLotR in, is English. :P
You charge each other for the time and breath it takes to say 'good morning',
But the truth is slowly dawning -- things are getting out of hand,
We all pursue our shattered dreams along the roads to our own ruin --
Watch our empires sink and wash away like castles made of sand.
And so cast off the lies that are your lives and find the truth within.
-- Martin Walkyier

Also, Balrogs have wings.

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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#21 Post by Draugwen » 27 Jun 2009 14:47

I am German, and I didn't get it either... :lol:
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#22 Post by nailz » 28 Jun 2009 01:54

Joost wrote:PS: I'm really getting tired of this by now though. Can't say I enjoy the fact how you have used so far two forums as your personal soapbox, much to the annoyance of quite a few regulars of those forums. If I were truly interested in what the Heritage Foundation has to say, I'd look at their website, not at the forum of a German metal band. Get a blog. Or something.
Shut up, Joost. :roll:
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#23 Post by Skyclad » 28 Jun 2009 02:10

In case anyone was interested, this bill passed.
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#24 Post by West Virginia Mule » 28 Jun 2009 03:14

The House put politics and special interests before the American people. Barely. 219-212. Two out of the three West Virginia House Reps are Democrats, but they all three voted against it. Brought a tear to my eye. We're fighting the good fight. Waxman-Markey will have a difficult time in the Senate. I hope.

Obama's War on Prosperity™ continues. We've elected a president whose sole agenda is to destroy the country.

H.R. 2454 will be devastating if it becomes a law. Three million unemployed because of it. Gasoline prices increase 58 percent, natural gas prices increase 55 percent, home heating oil increase 56 percent, electricity prices jump 90 percent. This bill is not about climate change. It's not about improving the environment. It's not about anything but raising taxes and taking away people's freedom (seems like that's what everything Obama does is about). It's a carbon tax. We could be taxed because of the carbon dioxide we exhale. If they want to figure out how much that is contributing to global warming, we could be taxed on it. The original version of the bill even had a tax on "bovine flatulence"...cow farts! But to appease the farmer states and get enough House votes they took out the cow fart tax. Pathetic, the whole thing. We don't have the technology to power the United States on wind and sun. Hello 20% unemployment rate. We'll be a third world country in eight years, ruled by an African despot.
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#25 Post by Skyclad » 28 Jun 2009 03:31

West Virginia Mule wrote:The House put politics and special interests before the American people. Barely. 219-212. Two out of the three West Virginia House Reps are Democrats, but they all three voted against it. Brought a tear to my eye. We're fighting the good fight. Waxman-Markey will have a difficult time in the Senate. I hope.

Obama's War on Prosperity™ continues. We've elected a president whose sole agenda is to destroy the country.

H.R. 2454 will be devastating if it becomes a law. Three million unemployed because of it. Gasoline prices increase 58 percent, natural gas prices increase 55 percent, home heating oil increase 56 percent, electricity prices jump 90 percent. This bill is not about climate change. It's not about improving the environment. It's not about anything but raising taxes and taking away people's freedom (seems like that's what everything Obama does is about). It's a carbon tax. We could be taxed because of the carbon dioxide we exhale. If they want to figure out how much that is contributing to global warming, we could be taxed on it. The original version of the bill even had a tax on "bovine flatulence"...cow farts! But to appease the farmer states and get enough House votes they took out the cow fart tax. Pathetic, the whole thing. We don't have the technology to power the United States on wind and sun. Hello 20% unemployment rate. We'll be a third world country in eight years, ruled by an African despot.
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#26 Post by West Virginia Mule » 28 Jun 2009 03:34

It's true that all conservatives are racist, sexist homophobes. It's axiomatic.

Have I mentioned lately that Joost is more American than you are? Heh.
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#27 Post by Skyclad » 28 Jun 2009 03:43

West Virginia Mule wrote:It's true that all conservatives are racist, sexist homophobes. It's axiomatic.

Have I mentioned lately that Joost is more American than you are? Heh.
I don't strive to be a decent American. I strive to be a decent human being.
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#28 Post by Draugwen » 28 Jun 2009 04:02

West Virginia Mule wrote:We don't have the technology to power the United States on wind and sun. Hello 20% unemployment rate. We'll be a third world country in eight years, ruled by an African despot.
How about.. putting some effort into setting up that technology and stuffing the masses of unemployed people there? :roll:
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#29 Post by West Virginia Mule » 28 Jun 2009 04:22

Skyclad wrote: I don't strive to be a decent American. I strive to be a decent human being.
That's really touching. Obama's with you on the One World Order thing, all nations and people across the globe being exactly equal, as he spewed in the dumbassed Cairo speech. Cairo, good place for someone like you to live instead of taking up good American air. :P
Draugwen wrote: How about.. putting some effort into setting up that technology and stuffing the masses of unemployed people there?
Great idea. Only thing is, we're gonna be unemployed right now. When's the technology gonna be there to power my Government Motors lawnmower-mobile on a windmill? The "millions of green jobs" the Pelosi idiot speaks of are decades away. Lot of good that does us now. The "mass of unemployed people" is just a phrase to you, a number. It happens to be my life.
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#30 Post by Skyclad » 28 Jun 2009 04:47

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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#31 Post by Draugwen » 28 Jun 2009 11:50

West Virginia Mule wrote: The "mass of unemployed people" is just a phrase to you, a number. It happens to be my life.
Ever wondered if there's more than one country knowing unemployment?
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#32 Post by Joost » 28 Jun 2009 11:52

West Virginia Mule wrote:It's true that all conservatives are racist, sexist homophobes. It's axiomatic.

Have I mentioned lately that Joost is more American than you are? Heh.
Wow, I'm American now? :o

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We all pursue our shattered dreams along the roads to our own ruin --
Watch our empires sink and wash away like castles made of sand.
And so cast off the lies that are your lives and find the truth within.
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#33 Post by Skyclad » 28 Jun 2009 17:34

Draugwen wrote:
West Virginia Mule wrote: The "mass of unemployed people" is just a phrase to you, a number. It happens to be my life.
Ever wondered if there's more than one country knowing unemployment?

Jackson doesn't realize that I live in Michigan, the only state to have known mass unemployment since the 1980's. Way before Obamam took office. I've lived surrounded by unemplyment most of my life. No one really complains unless it's layoffs or job losses in the area where they personally are involved. To this day no one cares about Michigan and its auto industry, in fact the Republicans are applauding the downfall because it'll finally do what they've always wanted to do, stop the largest union in the country.
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#34 Post by Sleeping Dragon » 28 Jun 2009 21:31

mule, you sure are going through a crisis, man. i'm really disturbed by the way you've been going on lately. you used to write and express yourself with uncanny articulance, now you're just rambling on like a gormless douchebag.

dude, we want you back from the time when you actually managed to make us look at things from a different perspective. now you just make us look at you like you lost your mind.
ᛁᚠ ᚣᚩᚢ ᚲᚪᚾ ᚱᛠᛞ ᚦᛁᛋ ᚣᚩᚢ ᚪᚱᛖ ᛏᚱ00!
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#35 Post by West Virginia Mule » 29 Jun 2009 00:06

Draugwen wrote: Ever wondered if there's more than one country knowing unemployment?
The subject was American unemployment resulting from the Waxman-Markey bill, not what goes on elsewhere (although what has happened elsewhere where they've tried this kind of thing is relevant, such as Spain's 18% unemployment rate). My point was, if you live in another country, the people unemployed by this bill are only numbers to you. If this bill was really going to help the environment in any significant way, I'd understand somewhat. But...it's not.
Skyclad wrote: Jackson doesn't realize that I live in Michigan...
No, I do. I just try not to remember it.

The comment was directed at the Draugwen person, not you. If I had directed it at you, it would have said somethig different. Like "STFU you traitor." Words to that effect.

And don't get all huffy puffy.
Joost wrote: Wow, I'm American now?
More so than Skyclad, it appears. Heh.
Sleeping Dragon wrote:mule, you sure are going through a crisis, man. i'm really disturbed by the way you've been going on lately. you used to write and express yourself with uncanny articulance, now you're just rambling on like a gormless douchebag.
Gormless?

It’s difficult to be uncannily articulate when you’re uncannily furious all the time.
Sleeping Dragon wrote:dude, we want you back from the time when you actually managed to make us look at things from a different perspective. now you just make us look at you like you lost your mind.
Well...I have. But if you'll work with me to get through this, maybe we can find happy times again.
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#36 Post by Skyclad » 29 Jun 2009 04:21

Jackson, you can't listen to Ronnie James Dio anymore. You have to throw out every piece of vinyl, every cassette, every CD you have with him on it. You do know he's a pro-environment anti-Bush democrat, don't you?




Vocal legend RONNIE JAMES DIO (ex-BLACK SABATH, RAINBOW)spoke to BW&BK recently about a number of topics recently including his song ‘The Man Who Would Be King’ (from 2004's Master Of The Moon) which could be viewed as a thinly-veiled anti-George Bush song. Have you turned into an angry old man?

“Absolutely. I get very angry," Dio agrees. "I’m a person of this world and I have a right to make statements and I have a responsibility to try to change those things. I learned pretty early on in my career when I tried to write a few songs. You know, ‘Children Of The Sea’ was really more about the ecological situation and how we’re trying to run before we can walk and this is what we’re doing to the planet and that we’re not thinking about what we’re doing. And do you know how much difference it made? Not a fucking toss. It didn’t to anything. But from that time until now I’ve still been concerned about what’s going on in this world, what people do to each other and how horrible we can be to each other and how seldom we are good to each other. I’ve made statements and they’re probably more to save my own guilt and my own conscience than they are to actually change anything, but I feel I have the right to make a statement and I know there’s people out there who feel like me. I write songs for people and I know there are people who feel the same way I do. So ‘The Man Who Would Be King’…well, I started to write that song about Richard The Lionheart who sent all these people out on a crusade to get the Holy Grail and to get the infidels, who at that point in his life were the Islamics, to wrest the Middle East away from them and give it back to Christianity. But when I started to write the song about him, I wrote it from the standpoint of a soldier who had to go and face this situation, I realised that it was no different than what someone like George Bush was doing in Iraq – sending the same people to the same place for the same moronic reasons, and we all see what the result of that was. So ‘The Man Who Would Be King’ spanned centuries. Bush and Richard The Lionheart were really one and the same. It speaks volumes about how humanity and its attitudes never change.”




Sorry Jackson. You could always make Ted Nugent or Blackie Lawless your new hero.
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#37 Post by West Virginia Mule » 29 Jun 2009 04:26

I hate it when that happens.
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#38 Post by Sleeping Dragon » 29 Jun 2009 07:29

ᛁᚠ ᚣᚩᚢ ᚲᚪᚾ ᚱᛠᛞ ᚦᛁᛋ ᚣᚩᚢ ᚪᚱᛖ ᛏᚱ00!
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Re: The Waxman-Markey "Cap-and-Trade" Global Warming Bill

#39 Post by West Virginia Mule » 30 Jun 2009 00:14

Stick figures make me sad.
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