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Re: EU on the brink of destruction?

Posted: 25 May 2010 13:58
by Mandarb
The problem is rather, that you now have more speculants than investors on the stock market. i.e, it's more like a casino than what it was supposed to be.

Also, there are very wealthy speculants "betting" on the euro plummeting, and they reinforce that downwards trend with speculations, other people panic, sell their euros, the euro plummets even more, the "engineers" of that downwards spiral make even more money (I saw somewhere a baffled reporter pointing to the big display panel in the New York exchange were for some strange reason the euro was removed and instead, the French Francs was being displayed. You can't tell me that this was an "accident", totally not engineered to reinforce the sceptisism in the euro...)

And it goes a little further: not only do they make money from the deflation of the euro, but they also buy loan default insurances for greece, thus making twice the money on destroying a country/currency.

It's completely sick. And all this talk about 14th salary? Do you guys have the *slightest* idea how much bigger your salary is, even though you only get 12 (or 13)? It's typical human... "Oh no! they seemingly have more than I do! They deserve it, fucking bastards!". The europeans with 13 salaries laugh now, if we had to give up our 13th salary the US guys would laugh their ass off. But in truth, only the investors and speculants laugh their assess off because of the stupidity of the people, and how easily they can be manipulated so that in they end, they, the already rich guys, have even more and the "dumb" common citizen has even less than before, and more work, and less chances etc.

You can't tell me that you didn't notice that the BIP is always increasing, while the produced goods don't even increase that much. It's all money made, or, rather, conjured, through such shady games... shady games because that "increase of worth" isn't based on anything material (or virtual material for that matter, a computer program is an asset too and has a real-world worth).

Re: EU on the brink of destruction?

Posted: 04 Jun 2010 11:47
by Nodoordonotthereisnotry
I think most of you got the gist of it but Mandarb's input about the stock market and how some people make money out of euro plummeting or the Greek economy failing was very crucial as well. And he made another good point, too. What he said about the Greek salaries. Some might be thinking (not all, to be fair) that having 14 salaries per year is "strange" and "unfair" but you should consider the fact how low are those salaries. 800 euros/month (average standard wage) in comparison to what other EU citizens make.

I think another parameter in this discussion should be the political system in Greece. How and why it was shaped to be as it was for the last couple of decades. We might say that people vote for the politicians they deserve but there are certain conditions that allow the continuous re-election of certain parties that have proven themselves less than worthy to govern a country. So while our politicians were mainly responsible (they had actual responsibilities not to steal money or to give this country the right direction towards development etc-well I'm not giving you a clear or strong picture here, but I could tell you that they have looted our economy and that you shouldn't tell me that I'm over the top!), there should be a distinction between the politics and the Greek people.

Lastly, we can't give you our women, since we've got to have something to cling on to! :twisted:

Re: EU on the brink of destruction?

Posted: 05 Jun 2010 00:50
by Gandalf de Grijze
Honestly, 14 salaries isn't that abnormal when you get paid once every 4 weeks or so.. otherwise it is just once a year something extra..
14 monthly salaries is weird as we only have 12 months....
how do you get past those other months if it is too short money.

anyway, my major problem is not teh salaries, but the incredibly early retirement age (55 or something??) you just cannot continue paying half the country their retirement money when you are close to bankrupcy..
people will just have to learn to work longer..

working longer means more money for yourselve, more for the government, and thus more for your retirement...

Re: EU on the brink of destruction?

Posted: 05 Jun 2010 01:58
by Nodoordonotthereisnotry
Gandalf de Grijze, I think you have over simplified the issue of the salaries, the pensions & the retirement age (which is not 55 or something, by the way, that would be absurd). A buggy economy like the Greek one should not be studied under the same light as the rest of EU countries'.

Had I wanted to actually elaborate on the above, I would need some serious time & effort on my part in order to do so. One easy thing for me to say would be that you shouldn't consider Greece as an equal EU partner, since there were some serious issues with our economy to begin with, as well as many political issues such as the corruption of the authorities, the state, the politicians along with tax avoidance & evasion.

If you insist, though, perhaps I could build it up slowly and see what happens! :wink:

Re: EU on the brink of destruction?

Posted: 07 Jun 2010 19:01
by Lilyael
so.....where's Europe ?