Occupy Together

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Joost
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Occupy Together

#1 Post by Joost » 17 Oct 2011 10:50

Anyone else here involved in the Occupy Together movement? This weekend I spent a lot of time at Occupy Amsterdam, and I must say I am almost overwhelmed by what I saw there. People gathering in general assemblies trying to put a consensus-based politics in action, a lot of talking *between* people of various political movements (and many 'independent' people), people overcoming their boundaries and openly discussing their ideas, peace signs all over the place, free expression of music/art, etc.

Occupy Your Streets, Occupy Together!
You charge each other for the time and breath it takes to say 'good morning',
But the truth is slowly dawning -- things are getting out of hand,
We all pursue our shattered dreams along the roads to our own ruin --
Watch our empires sink and wash away like castles made of sand.
And so cast off the lies that are your lives and find the truth within.
-- Martin Walkyier

Also, Balrogs have wings.

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Sarah
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Re: Occupy Together

#2 Post by Sarah » 17 Oct 2011 13:57

Saw the protests in Paris, and i have to say, in a country specialised in demonstrations of all kinds, this one really looked like a poor gathering of hippies :D
Dreamland turned to realland and we faced a new frontier
We lost the world
Sometimes we hold it but it's slipping away
When we add reality it doesn't taste like our dream

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Re: Occupy Together

#3 Post by Orodaran » 17 Oct 2011 20:00

Always better than what went down in Rome :roll:
"There's a time when a man needs to fight and a time when he needs to accept that his destiny's lost, the ship has sailed and that only a fool will continue. The truth is I've always been a fool"
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Re: Occupy Together

#4 Post by ra me nivar » 18 Oct 2011 12:14

Don't be sad, Oro.

Here one right-winged newspapers made their frontpage with the image of the incidents in Rome, labeling it "the Indignados having their feast" or something like that, but besides them, who doesn't really care, everyone else had done the math: 200.000 protesters, 200 vandals. I would be proud of it.

Image

And about the protests, when they started here 7 months back, I was quite excited about it: for the first time in ages I saw people on tv (common people, not politicians nor reporters) speaking my thoughts out.

Now, I'm a bit depressed about it. Banks keep their mad race, and now they are going to get a second billionary shot of money... And the protests, I have to say, are quite like a party around here. And a voice inside my head keeps whispering that we ain't gonna do shit without Kalashnikovs and blood.

It's a bit psycho, I guess, but I don't feel that the system is going to change at all without some bullet holes on it.

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Re: Occupy Together

#5 Post by End Of An Era » 18 Oct 2011 22:48

i'd rather work my ass off to become one of the 1% so i can make the difference the 99% wants so badly :P :lol:

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Re: Occupy Together

#6 Post by t.a.j. » 19 Oct 2011 06:46

End Of An Era wrote:i'd rather work my ass off to become one of the 1% so i can make the difference the 99% wants so badly :P :lol:
You got it the wrong way around. It's the 99% working their asses off that has made the 1% so rich.
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They say that there's a broken light for every heart on Broadway.
They say that life's a game, then they take the board away.
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Re: Occupy Together

#7 Post by End Of An Era » 19 Oct 2011 07:39

and that's why i am working towards that goal instead. or at least i'm trying :mrgreen:

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Re: Occupy Together

#8 Post by Isis65 » 19 Oct 2011 11:50

I'm into politic since I was a teenager (a lot of time ago...) I'm not really into this movement (it don't really critics capitalist system....only request little, poor things), but here the march assumed to be against the governement...so, for sure it's ok for me, I was sorry don't go in Rome last saturday, but I've a shoulder in plaster for a motorcicle accident, so was impossible...
What's happened here was predictable, if someone remember what's happened in Geneva, 2001, during the G8 summit....

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Re: Occupy Together

#9 Post by Joost » 20 Oct 2011 00:01

Isis65 wrote:I'm into politic since I was a teenager (a lot of time ago...) I'm not really into this movement (it don't really critics capitalist system....only request little, poor things),
The movement as a whole does very little things along the lines of making political statement, but 'criticizing capitalism' is probably one of those things. As an illustration, the following:

I just returned from a meeting of the vision group of Occupy Amsterdam (which has as its aim giving the movement a bit of an ideological shape and/or a philosophical basis): there were about 30 people (on a Wednesday evening, on a day with rain and hailstorms) and the main result of the conversation was that we should really focus on the economical system and its shortcomings, and not be hesitant to attack this system at its core. We concluded that in the current system, people tend to serve the economy, whereas it should really be the other way around; a 'new economy' should not use money as its 'base unit' but rather something tangible, concrete things such as natural resources; and with this 'new economy' it should still be possible to have economics as a science involving mathematical methods. Furthermore, the media also play a problematic role, in the sense that they encourage people to achieve self-fulfilment through branding and other commerce-based methods of identification; instead of this we want to go to a culture in which people can achieve self-fulfilment through personal choices. As such, we concluded that we should find openings/ways to put human values above financial values.

For me personally, achieving these goals would definitely involve getting rid of capitalism-as-we-know-it.
You charge each other for the time and breath it takes to say 'good morning',
But the truth is slowly dawning -- things are getting out of hand,
We all pursue our shattered dreams along the roads to our own ruin --
Watch our empires sink and wash away like castles made of sand.
And so cast off the lies that are your lives and find the truth within.
-- Martin Walkyier

Also, Balrogs have wings.

::.: Homepage .::. last.fm .::. Facebook .::. Flickr :.::

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Re: Occupy Together

#10 Post by Steffi » 20 Oct 2011 09:12

Joost wrote: Furthermore, the media also play a problematic role, in the sense that they encourage people to achieve self-fulfilment through branding and other commerce-based methods of identification; instead of this we want to go to a culture in which people can achieve self-fulfilment through personal choices. As such, we concluded that we should find openings/ways to put human values above financial values.
I guess that is one of the main points in this crisis - I don't think it is only the bankers that are "greedy" - I think it is most of the people. I mean - what bank DO you bring your money to? The one that invests in ecological or social projects or the one that offers you a higer interest rate? Everybody wants everything and as cheap as possible not taking into account any consequences that implies. I guess it is a vicious circle - with our consumer behaviour we force everybody to go to the limits - banks, productions plants, etc. It is all about who has the biggest TV-screen for the cheapest price and we lose the real values of life. Those things that really should matter.

And I do not have a lot of hope that this could be changed.

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Re: Occupy Together

#11 Post by ra me nivar » 20 Oct 2011 16:05

Do you really can notice the diferente between one bank's interest rate and some other bank's rate!?

Definetively Europe rocks: here, at the south side of the Pirenees, the only difference between one bank and the next, for the average user, is the colour of your card.

(And of course no one of them cares about doing anything more expensive than their advertising budget: what would be the point, for them?)

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Re: Occupy Together

#12 Post by t.a.j. » 20 Oct 2011 16:39

I don't believe that there are greedy people. People tend to massively overestimate people's indepence of behavior. The vast of majority of things we do and decisions we make are not based on principles, personality or philosophy, but on (probably in that order, I think) a) what (relevant) people around us are doing, b) what we feel is expected of us (by the relevant people around us), c) what we have "always" done before in "the same" situation and d) base emotional reactions, such as fear. Mostly, these things appear to us as "intuition", "gut instinct" or obvious and clear, if they ever appear to our consciousness at all. Logically after the fact, we make up ideologies that make our behaviour out as "the right thing". Then we spend a lot of time convincing each other that the way we live is the only way we can or the only way that works or anyway, get a job.
This goes for the people at the bottom as well as for the people on top. The main difference between them is not that one group is greedier than the other (they're not), but that for some, the mixture of context and behavior makes them filthy rich, for others, it makes them exploitable wage slaves.
http://www.gedichtblog.de
They say that there's a broken light for every heart on Broadway.
They say that life's a game, then they take the board away.
They give you masks and costumes and an outline of the story
Then leave you all to improvise their vicious cabaret...


Still the goddamn Batman.

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Joost
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Re: Occupy Together

#13 Post by Joost » 20 Oct 2011 17:10

Amazing post, Thomas! :)
You charge each other for the time and breath it takes to say 'good morning',
But the truth is slowly dawning -- things are getting out of hand,
We all pursue our shattered dreams along the roads to our own ruin --
Watch our empires sink and wash away like castles made of sand.
And so cast off the lies that are your lives and find the truth within.
-- Martin Walkyier

Also, Balrogs have wings.

::.: Homepage .::. last.fm .::. Facebook .::. Flickr :.::

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End Of An Era
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Re: Occupy Together

#14 Post by End Of An Era » 20 Oct 2011 22:53

Joost wrote:Amazing post, Thomas! :)
i can only agree :)

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Re: Occupy Together

#15 Post by Joost » 21 Oct 2011 18:06

I wrote a long and in-depth article about my active involvement with Occupy Amsterdam, my experiences there, and the doubts that arose during that period.

http://joostwinter.com/occupy.html
You charge each other for the time and breath it takes to say 'good morning',
But the truth is slowly dawning -- things are getting out of hand,
We all pursue our shattered dreams along the roads to our own ruin --
Watch our empires sink and wash away like castles made of sand.
And so cast off the lies that are your lives and find the truth within.
-- Martin Walkyier

Also, Balrogs have wings.

::.: Homepage .::. last.fm .::. Facebook .::. Flickr :.::

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