Anyone knows about a good fantasy-RPG without magic stuff?

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Anyone knows about a good fantasy-RPG without magic stuff?

#1 Post by Andreas » 27 Jul 2010 00:51

I really hate using too much magic in videogames, it's actually why I dislike fantasy RPGs. I mean, a bit of magic isn't that bad, but some games are almost drowning in it. I don't have too many axamples to give you, but does anybody have some nice suggestions?

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Re: Anyone knows about a good fantasy-RPG without magic stuf

#2 Post by Palantyre » 27 Jul 2010 02:41

The Witcher. Your character knows a few very basic tricks, which aren't even necessary to use, except in a precious few points in the game. For example, a few times you'll have to blast away an obstacle with this funky blast spell thingy.
Bloody awesome game otherwise, too. Grim and gritty as hell, good storytelling, dialogue, music, atmosphere, all that jazz.

And I know where youre coming from, just before The Witcher I had played the Neverwinter Nights 2 expansion, Mask of the Betrayer. It's an epic-level D&D adventure, so you can imagine the level of magic shit going on. Talking to dead gods, generally mucking about from one plane of existence to another...
Then after that, I played The Witcher and oh my fucking god, breath of fresh air much?

Also, be sure to get the Enhanced Edition.
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Re: Anyone knows about a good fantasy-RPG without magic stuf

#3 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 27 Jul 2010 08:28

This is a difficult question. Most rpg's closely follow the formula of Dungeons and Dragons and LotR and as a result are quite heavy on magic. Even the cyberpunk-rpg Shadowrun on the snes has a huge magical element, though there are a lot of scifi rpg's that don't have a huge emphasis on magic (KotOR and Mass Effect, for example). Out of curiousity: what do you have against magic? I find it hard to imagine a fantasy-rpg without it and personally wouldn't want to save the world without a mage in my party.

Oh well. On to the suggestions.

Your best bet is probably Oblivion. It does have a magical element, but it is entirely optional. The strength of the game is its open-ended gameplay which you can approach any way you want to. If you want to play as a barbarian or a cunning thief, that's okay too. In fact, you can play through the entire game any way you want too. It looks a bit dated after five years, but if you never played it, it's a must.

Dragon Age Origins might be good too. Like in Obvlivion you get to choose your own class, and you can play most of the game as a beserker dwarf, for example. That said, I have the feeling that it'll be quite difficult to finish without having at least one spellcaster in your party. I don't think it's impossible, but it'll be a challenge. DAO has an advanced tactical element where you can set your allies behavior through if-then statements, and tweaking your party to perfection might give you the edge to defeat the game. And course there's the possibility of having the AI control a spellcaster, keeping your own hands free. All things aside: DAO is one of the best rpg's ever and one I love dearly.

Another one you could try are the Tales-series (especially Tales of Vesperia on the PS3/360 and Tales of Symphonia on the GC/Wii) and Star Ocean-games. Both are typically jrpg's, with the big twist is that the battles are inspired by Street Fighter and the like. When you encounter baddies you fight them in real time, with a large emphasis (especially in Tales) on huge combo's. Once again: these games do contain magic, but it's perfectly possible to make a party of only fighters, or add a spellcaster and let the AI control it.

If you didn't you might want to play Assassin's Creed 2 too. It's not an rpg per se, but it includes a lot of rpg elements and no magic whatsoever. And obviously Zelda too, which isn't an rpg either but certainly comes close. The game that I'm playing right now - Infinite Undiscovery - also comes very close to what you want. You can read about it in the videogames-thread. And there's Monster Hunter Tri on the Wii. I never played it (yet) but it might be close too.
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Re: Anyone knows about a good fantasy-RPG without magic stuf

#4 Post by t.a.j. » 27 Jul 2010 09:00

The Rider Of Rohan wrote:This is a difficult question. Most rpg's closely follow the formula of Dungeons and Dragons and LotR and as a result are quite heavy on magic.

Actually, LotR is extremely magic-light compared to later stories and most of all to rpgs. Also, magic as a game element is something very different from magic as a narrative element.
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Re: Anyone knows about a good fantasy-RPG without magic stuf

#5 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 27 Jul 2010 11:08

And offtopic we go.

It's quite possible for an rpg to be inspired by LotR and still have a lot of magic in it. Just like it is possible to be influenced by Iron Maiden and have lots of cookiemonster-vocals.
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Re: Anyone knows about a good fantasy-RPG without magic stuf

#6 Post by Cerbere » 27 Jul 2010 22:36

The Rider Of Rohan wrote:And there's Monster Hunter Tri on the Wii. I never played it (yet) but it might be close too.
I have it, but haven't played it. It doesn't really have magic though, so it might me a good option.

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#7 Post by Andreas » 28 Jul 2010 01:26

OK thanks for the tips. I think I'll start off with the Witcher and maybe Oblivion.

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#8 Post by T3hOverlord » 29 Jul 2010 22:12

THE ELDER SCROLLS IV: OBLIVION, I cant reccomend it highly enough.

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Re: Anyone knows about a good fantasy-RPG without magic stuf

#9 Post by Led Guardian » 31 Jul 2010 05:32

T3hOverlord wrote: THE ELDER SCROLLS IV: OBLIVION, I cant reccomend it highly enough.
Or in large enough font apparently. :P
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Re: Anyone knows about a good fantasy-RPG without magic stuf

#10 Post by t.a.j. » 31 Jul 2010 08:16

The Rider Of Rohan wrote:And offtopic we go.

It's quite possible for an rpg to be inspired by LotR and still have a lot of magic in it. Just like it is possible to be influenced by Iron Maiden and have lots of cookiemonster-vocals.
Certainly, but what you said was that rpgs "follow the formula" of LotR closely and "as a result" have lots of magic. But the formula of LotR is one of little actual on-screen magic and a lot of mystical background. Which is almost the opposite of most RPGs. What RPGs took from LotR were certain tropes, such as Orcs, Elves, Dwarves, Halflings, Rangers, ....
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Re: Anyone knows about a good fantasy-RPG without magic stuf

#11 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 31 Jul 2010 09:55

Whilst the fact that Gandalf didn't use a great deal of magic is undeniably true, that's hardly the essence of the Lotr-books - at least where the connection to videogames are concerned.

Modern rpg's take a lot of influences from LotR and D&D, with one of them being the concept of certain psychological archetypes (the youth who comes of age, the wise old man, the warrior et cetera) as well as cultural/racial archetypes (dwarves, elves, balrogs without wings) who form a party and go on a quest. Obviously this is a very gross simplification, but in essence it's entirely true.

Now, when you put a mage inside a videogame mechanic, chances are he'll actually cast spells. It's kinda like a James Bond-videogame. In a movie Bond only touches his gun once or twice, but that wouldn't work in a game-mechanic: so you basically have James Bond carrying a gun all the time, happily gunning down more people than he would in any movie. It's a same with mages. They tend to have lower DEF, HIT ant ATK-rates, so they need something to compensate for that.

So yes, it is quite possible to knowledge the link between LotR and modern fantasy rpg's that contain magic. In fact, you can verify this statement by turning it upside-down. Take an rpg which is quite heavy on magic (for example Final Fantasy 6, which uses it a lot) and imagine that someone would turn it into an epic novel. In the case of FF6 the world, narrative and underlying themes would survive, but the magic would only be applied in a small number of chapters. Terra would still destroy a number of imperial troupers in a magical outrage and Kefka would still be driven insane from his magical powers, but you certainly wouldn't have Locke using a magic spell every thirty seconds.

Books and games are quite different media's, so it's possible for them to share the same aspects but put a different emphasis on them.
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Re: Anyone knows about a good fantasy-RPG without magic stuf

#12 Post by The_Soulforged » 31 Jul 2010 10:16

My favorite one is "Dark Messiah of Might and Magic". It's a pretty cool first person Action-RPG. It used Valves Source Engine.
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Re: Anyone knows about a good fantasy-RPG without magic stuf

#13 Post by t.a.j. » 31 Jul 2010 10:17

That was part of the point I made earlier that magic as a game element is something very different from magic as a narrative element. In LotR Gandalf, the only magic user around, does most of his fighting by sword and staff. The magic he can use is mystical, rare and used as a narrative element to convey a certain sense of the magical. This is not how magic and magic users work in games. As you observed, for magic to work in a game it has to have an actual function, it has to be able to be used by the players, broadly and strategically. Which contradicts the whole idea of magic being mystical and results in the fireball artillery type wizard.
But:
Saying that someone made a game with fireball throwing, levitating elven wizards by copying LotR is like saying that somebody to recreates the ambiance of the Sahara by building a big swimming pool and filling it with water. That gaming concept of magic and magic users stems from inherent pressures of game design, rather than LotR influences. The LotR influences are to be found elsewhere: in iconic monster, heroes, races, plots,...
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Re: Anyone knows about a good fantasy-RPG without magic stuf

#14 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 31 Jul 2010 10:33

Well, if you make the distinction between magic as a narrative and magic as a game-mechanic, then our opinions aren't that far off.

One of the greatst videogame wizards is the guy pictured in my avatar: Magus from Chrono Trigger. Aside from being totally bad-ass, he's able to cast every kind of elemental magic in the game, which makes him my favourite character. Now, if we would cross out all the battles and just stick to the narrative, there would only be 3 or four scenes where he uses his magic in the whole game - which is more or less the same amount of times Gandalf uses his magic.

Once again it's a matter of emphasis. It's true that the wizard in a videogame casts more spells than the wizard in LotR. But then again, the warrior in a videogame also fights more than in LotR. This is mainly due to the structure of the game. Traditional jrpg's contain a very large number of random encounters and only a few battles which serve a narrative purpose. Quite unlike LotR, where random encounters don't exist and every battle serves a purpose to the plot.

It's true that you could stick more closely to LotR and have a game where the characters sit in a circle and talk about the fate of the world and meet monsters every three hours, but that wouldn't work.
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#15 Post by Andreas » 31 Jul 2010 19:14

I understood that The Witches is a point and click RPG? I like to do the hacking and such myself, not by clicking on an enemy. I believe Morrowind isn't point and click, something like that would be cool, only with less magic and more moves for your weapon. Or am I too demanding?

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#16 Post by Palantyre » 31 Jul 2010 19:21

Andreas wrote:I understood that The Witches is a point and click RPG? I like to do the hacking and such myself, not by clicking on an enemy. I believe Morrowind isn't point and click, something like that would be cool, only with less magic and more moves for your weapon. Or am I too demanding?
Well, The Witcher is point-and-click in a way, but there's more to it. you have to time your clicks right, and pay attention to which fighting stance you use against which enemy. So it's actually a lot more engaging than Morrowind's simple hacking away by clicking repeatedly, and in a way you are doing the moves "yourself".
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#17 Post by Dragon Guardian » 13 Nov 2010 18:31

Not really an RPG, but you might like Darksiders, which is a Zelda and God oF War hybrid.

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#18 Post by Skyflat » 13 Nov 2010 20:03

Some RPGs:

!! Bloody Good Time
!! Alternativa
!! Hitaman (all)
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#19 Post by T3hOverlord » 03 Dec 2010 06:39

oh i know. Try Mount And Blade: Warband

its like a fantasy RPG except is like purely Medieval. no magic, no dumb looking armor. The kingdoms are fictional but everything in it is true to the time of around 1200 AD. you can amass a big army and conquer the lands and theres lots of politics between opposing factions and stuff. its really cool and worth a try. theres also 200 man multiplayer castle seiges

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#20 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 04 Dec 2010 13:07

I watched some trailers of Warband. Looks fun if they port it to the Xbox, but it doesn't really seem to be an rpg. More lieke a medieval hack n slash.
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#21 Post by T3hOverlord » 07 Dec 2010 07:36

The Rider Of Rohan wrote:I watched some trailers of Warband. Looks fun if they port it to the Xbox, but it doesn't really seem to be an rpg. More lieke a medieval hack n slash.
naw then they were just showing you the combat which isnt realy a large part of the game. Basically cause Warband is a standalone expansion for Mount And Blade, which is the same game minus the epic 22 man multiplayer battles. in the singleplayer the map is really huge and you do some kind of weird mini map free roam to get from place to place. Theres lots and lots of text and you have to talk to lots of people. the combat only happens when you want it to. you have to build up a big force of guys to lead you into battle (sometimes over 500 guys!) example: say you want to take over a castle of an opposing faction and take it over for the faction you are aligned with. you would gather up guys and siege the castle. if you win then your faction likes you a lot more and the leader of the faction takes a few days to decide who will rule that castle now (it could be you or an NPC) theres a detailed relationship system with every single named character in the game. the goal in the end is to take over the whole map and start your own kingdom. Many aspects of the game are similar to 'Sid Meier's Pirates!' if you've ever played that.

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#22 Post by T3hOverlord » 07 Dec 2010 07:37

and they will never port it off of PC cause it would be terrible on a console. Its all dialogue and relationships with factions and stuff like that, theres no real focus on combat at all within the game

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#23 Post by spamel » 07 Dec 2010 12:44

The Rider Of Rohan wrote:Well, if you make the distinction between magic as a narrative and magic as a game-mechanic, then our opinions aren't that far off.

One of the greatst videogame wizards is the guy pictured in my avatar: Magus from Chrono Trigger. <snip>

Hahaha! I had to laugh, you obviously wrote this before you put Al Bundy up! :mrgreen:
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#24 Post by The Rider Of Rohan » 07 Dec 2010 22:21

T3hOverlord wrote:
The Rider Of Rohan wrote:I watched some trailers of Warband. Looks fun if they port it to the Xbox, but it doesn't really seem to be an rpg. More lieke a medieval hack n slash.
naw then they were just showing you the combat which isnt realy a large part of the game. Basically cause Warband is a standalone expansion for Mount And Blade, which is the same game minus the epic 22 man multiplayer battles. in the singleplayer the map is really huge and you do some kind of weird mini map free roam to get from place to place. Theres lots and lots of text and you have to talk to lots of people. the combat only happens when you want it to. you have to build up a big force of guys to lead you into battle (sometimes over 500 guys!) example: say you want to take over a castle of an opposing faction and take it over for the faction you are aligned with. you would gather up guys and siege the castle. if you win then your faction likes you a lot more and the leader of the faction takes a few days to decide who will rule that castle now (it could be you or an NPC) theres a detailed relationship system with every single named character in the game. the goal in the end is to take over the whole map and start your own kingdom. Many aspects of the game are similar to 'Sid Meier's Pirates!' if you've ever played that.
Sounds cool, but you didn't describe any roleplaying elements whatsoever....
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#25 Post by Led Guardian » 07 Dec 2010 23:04

The Rider Of Rohan wrote:
T3hOverlord wrote:
The Rider Of Rohan wrote:I watched some trailers of Warband. Looks fun if they port it to the Xbox, but it doesn't really seem to be an rpg. More lieke a medieval hack n slash.
naw then they were just showing you the combat which isnt realy a large part of the game. Basically cause Warband is a standalone expansion for Mount And Blade, which is the same game minus the epic 22 man multiplayer battles. in the singleplayer the map is really huge and you do some kind of weird mini map free roam to get from place to place. Theres lots and lots of text and you have to talk to lots of people. the combat only happens when you want it to. you have to build up a big force of guys to lead you into battle (sometimes over 500 guys!) example: say you want to take over a castle of an opposing faction and take it over for the faction you are aligned with. you would gather up guys and siege the castle. if you win then your faction likes you a lot more and the leader of the faction takes a few days to decide who will rule that castle now (it could be you or an NPC) theres a detailed relationship system with every single named character in the game. the goal in the end is to take over the whole map and start your own kingdom. Many aspects of the game are similar to 'Sid Meier's Pirates!' if you've ever played that.
Sounds cool, but you didn't describe any roleplaying elements whatsoever....
You don't think that a relationship system and extensive NPC interaction sounds like an RPG? RPG is a role playing game, and that sounds potentially like playing a role.
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#26 Post by Palantyre » 08 Dec 2010 15:37

Didn't you hear? Roleplaying games are really only about character skillpoints and inventory management.
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#27 Post by Led Guardian » 08 Dec 2010 22:15

Palantyre wrote:Didn't you hear? Roleplaying games are really only about character skillpoints and inventory management.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that.
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Re: Anyone knows about a good fantasy-RPG without magic stuf

#29 Post by Doublefrost » 02 Mar 2011 02:17

Last Remnant doesn't seem too magic-centric (from where I've gotten so far!), though it is a little strange as far as combat systems go. Each character acts as either a squad leader or, if you assign them as such a squad member which ultimately add up into some fairly numerically large battles as far as these games go. Fighting is a bit on the tactical end as a result.

.Hack// games might be worth looking at too. They aren't fantasy RPG series PER-SAY but you do role-play being a player of a player in a fantasy setting MMORPG. Close-ish enough, right? In those, your character is controlled actively in combat, with some basic button press combo attacks and various special attacks you can execute in real-time. G.U. is faster paced and more complex with combat, if you want to do the hacking yourself. Magic present, but it won't save them from getting a gigantic sword stabbed through their guts now will it? Weapons win the day by and large.

Oblivion is worthwhile as well, but I'd say only for PC and modding it is a MUST if you really want a challenge in combat. There're a number of mods that add deadlier combat, stronger enemies and special attacks for you and your opponents.

If Oblivion is up your alley and you don't mind a DOS era game run through a DOSbox window, you should also look at TESII: Daggerfall. It's available from the developer as a free download now, off the Elder Scrolls website. That one, you have manual control over weapon swing direction and attack type with your mouse. More attack variety than Morrowind, and magic is optional. (If a bit crippling to not have ANYTHING, but doable.)

The Wizardry series can 'sort-of' be played without magic, if you can get your hands on any of those old games. It's strictly suicidal though.

Quest For Glory, another DOS-era series doesn't require magic at all. It's a bit of an adventure RPG, but quite comical and entertaining. Warning: First couple use text parsers.

Ever give Ultima a shot? Magic yes, sometimes even plot critical but it doesn't have to drive at the wheel in general game-play unless you want it to.

Secret of Mana gives you control of the action yourself. Some magic may be needed here and there. Up to three players with multi-tap. :P

Suikoden games seem not to rely on magic unless u r teh n00b. Might make it hard to ignore runes completely though in some of the tougher battles.

The Thief series is more sneaking and stealing, pretty much no magic casting.

Fantasy with low or no magic is a pretty tall order, but there are things out there that either aren't awash in it or don't require you to fling more fireballs than fisticuffs.

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